Comments on: DUI Double Jeopardy and Multiple Punishment http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/ Bad Drunk Driving Laws, False Evidence and a Fading Constitution Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:42:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Washington http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/comment-page-1/#comment-79387 Washington Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:53:42 +0000 http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/#comment-79387 I live in Washington State and had my first DUI. I followed the appeal process with DMV , it took 1 month and I failed. Then I applied for a interlock license being indignant , sent in my 100.00 fee, and it took a additional month to set up. I was approved and had the interlock for 10 months. I just got it removed because I'm eligible now to get my license back, its been 12 months, and my interlock license expired at the same time. So I paid 195.00 reinstatement fee's with DMV, took the test and I'm ready for the drive test. I'm still not charged with anything yet with the courts and its been over a year. I called DMV and they told me if I'm charged I will get suspended again just after I get my licence back and I will need to have the interlock for 2 more months, for a total of 12 months, the same as my suspension time. What they fail to tell you is that I will need a letter of compliance from DMV and in order to get that I will need the interlock for a additional month for a total of 3 months . The extra month is so they can record the last month on the interlock system to look for any interlock failed tests. The interlock Co. told me this when I was having the interlock removed. I didn't need a compliance letter because I was not charged yet. So I will most likely loose my license again within a few months from now. I will have to wait around for one month without driving to prove indignant and pay the 100.00. Then pay 75.00 to have the interlock installed back in. Wait for 3 months, have it removed and wait 1 week for the compliance letter from DMV. Then Run down to DMV and pay "again" 175.00 to get my licence back. I don't need to take the written or the drive test again, but its interesting how much they stall so that you have to suffer and repeat the whole process again with the interlock and DMV fee's. If they would only suspend it for a year and 3 months you wouldn't have to waste time and money installing the interlock again. People who aren't indigent have to pay 250.00 for install and 100's for removal. The interlock Co. told me that on several occasions DMV will not inform anyone of this compliance letter and its resulted in many people having to pay big money to have it placed back in. The interlock Co. has been telling people to call DMV back several times to make sure you don't need this letter before you have the device removed. but when your year suspension is up your interlock license expires too, even if its not the complete 12 months required by the court to have the interlock in your car. People are punished more than is realized by both the court and DMV. all to make as much money as possible. Withholding information, stalling, fee's, and catch 22's are all in favor of our nice government. I live in Washington State and had my first DUI. I followed the appeal process with DMV , it took 1 month and I failed. Then I applied for a interlock license being indignant , sent in my 100.00 fee, and it took a additional month to set up. I was approved and had the interlock for 10 months. I just got it removed because I’m eligible now to get my license back, its been 12 months, and my interlock license expired at the same time. So I paid 195.00 reinstatement fee’s with DMV, took the test and I’m ready for the drive test. I’m still not charged with anything yet with the courts and its been over a year. I called DMV and they told me if I’m charged I will get suspended again just after I get my licence back and I will need to have the interlock for 2 more months, for a total of 12 months, the same as my suspension time. What they fail to tell you is that I will need a letter of compliance from DMV and in order to get that I will need the interlock for a additional month for a total of 3 months . The extra month is so they can record the last month on the interlock system to look for any interlock failed tests. The interlock Co. told me this when I was having the interlock removed. I didn’t need a compliance letter because I was not charged yet. So I will most likely loose my license again within a few months from now. I will have to wait around for one month without driving to prove indignant and pay the 100.00. Then pay 75.00 to have the interlock installed back in. Wait for 3 months, have it removed and wait 1 week for the compliance letter from DMV. Then Run down to DMV and pay “again” 175.00 to get my licence back. I don’t need to take the written or the drive test again, but its interesting how much they stall so that you have to suffer and repeat the whole process again with the interlock and DMV fee’s. If they would only suspend it for a year and 3 months you wouldn’t have to waste time and money installing the interlock again. People who aren’t indigent have to pay 250.00 for install and 100’s for removal. The interlock Co. told me that on several occasions DMV will not inform anyone of this compliance letter and its resulted in many people having to pay big money to have it placed back in. The interlock Co. has been telling people to call DMV back several times to make sure you don’t need this letter before you have the device removed. but when your year suspension is up your interlock license expires too, even if its not the complete 12 months required by the court to have the interlock in your car. People are punished more than is realized by both the court and DMV. all to make as much money as possible. Withholding information, stalling, fee’s, and catch 22’s are all in favor of our nice government.

]]> By: US CITIZEN http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/comment-page-1/#comment-74740 US CITIZEN Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:37:28 +0000 http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/#comment-74740 LET IT BE FURTHER KNOWN DOUBLE JEOPARDY BECOMES TRIPLE JEOPARDY IN FLORIDA THAT PEOPLE WITH FLORIDA DL WILL BE PERMANENTLY REVOKED FOR HAVING HAD DUI CONVICTIONS IN OR OUT THIS STATE OF 4 OR MORE AND BECOME RETROACTIVE FROM ANY PARTICIPATING STATE ON THE NATIONAL REGISTRY OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA EVEN IF YOU NEVER HAD A TICKET IN FLORIDA & YES THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE NATIONAL REGISTRY FOR REPORTING BUT NOT ALL REPORT TO FLORIDA, THUS MAKING IT PERMANENT AND IRREVOKABLE UNTIL AFTER 5 YEARS THE BILL WAS CHANGED IN 2011 LOOK IT UP. IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN 4 YOU WILL HAVE TO REDUCE THIS AMOUNT TO HAVE ANY PRAYER TO BELOW 4. NO MATTER WHAT THEY WONT BUDGE ON OVER 4-5. GET THEM REMOVED BY SET ASIDE OR NEW RULING OR EXPUNGEMENT. GOOD LUCK NEVER GO TO FLORIDA THEY WILL ROBB YOU OF YOUR MOST PRECIOUS GIFTS THE RIGHT TO LIBERTY AND FREEDOM OR THE RIGHT TO WORK IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. IMPOSING DOUBLE JEOPARDY PUNISHMENTS ON YOU IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL... FLEE FROM THEM LIKE THE PLEAQUE !!!!!!! I BEGG OF YOU DO NOT LOOK BACK JUST LEAVE IMMEDIATELY REMOVE ALL YOUR FUNDS FROM THIS STATE AND FORGET THEM ONCE YOU HAVE YOUR FREEDOM OTHERWISE OBTAINED AND SECURED IN ALTERNATIVE STATE IN THE USA. FLORIDA IS ON THE TAKE !!!! LET IT BE FURTHER KNOWN DOUBLE JEOPARDY BECOMES TRIPLE JEOPARDY IN FLORIDA THAT PEOPLE WITH FLORIDA DL WILL BE PERMANENTLY REVOKED FOR HAVING HAD DUI CONVICTIONS IN OR OUT THIS STATE OF 4 OR MORE AND BECOME RETROACTIVE FROM ANY PARTICIPATING STATE ON THE NATIONAL REGISTRY OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA EVEN IF YOU NEVER HAD A TICKET IN FLORIDA & YES THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE NATIONAL REGISTRY FOR REPORTING BUT NOT ALL REPORT TO FLORIDA, THUS MAKING IT PERMANENT AND IRREVOKABLE UNTIL AFTER 5 YEARS THE BILL WAS CHANGED IN 2011 LOOK IT UP. IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN 4 YOU WILL HAVE TO REDUCE THIS AMOUNT TO HAVE ANY PRAYER TO BELOW 4. NO MATTER WHAT THEY WONT BUDGE ON OVER 4-5. GET THEM REMOVED BY SET ASIDE OR NEW RULING OR EXPUNGEMENT.
GOOD LUCK
NEVER GO TO FLORIDA
THEY WILL ROBB YOU OF YOUR MOST PRECIOUS GIFTS
THE RIGHT TO LIBERTY AND FREEDOM OR THE RIGHT TO WORK IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. IMPOSING DOUBLE JEOPARDY PUNISHMENTS ON YOU IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL… FLEE FROM THEM LIKE THE PLEAQUE !!!!!!!
I BEGG OF YOU DO NOT LOOK BACK JUST LEAVE IMMEDIATELY REMOVE ALL YOUR FUNDS FROM THIS STATE AND FORGET THEM ONCE YOU HAVE YOUR FREEDOM OTHERWISE OBTAINED AND SECURED IN ALTERNATIVE STATE IN THE USA. FLORIDA IS ON THE TAKE !!!!

]]> By: rholtzjr http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/comment-page-1/#comment-627 rholtzjr Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:08:03 +0000 http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/#comment-627 Okay, since the US Supreme Court has deemed the addition of the confiscation of your license an "Administrative Sacntion" and does not apply to the double jeopardy protection, I feel that we need to take a look at what "Administrative Sanctions" really means. This would also apply to states that assess fees to get the confiscated license re-instated. According to Miriam-Webster ( 2008, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sanction ), this is defined as: the detriment, loss of reward, or coercive intervention annexed to a violation of a law as a means of enforcing the law. According to Miriam-Webster ( 2008, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coercing ), this is defined as: 1. to compel to an act or choice 2. to restrain of dominate by force 3. to achieve by force. According to Miriam-Webster ( 2008, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/annex ), this is defined as: 1: to attach as a quality, consequence, or condition 2archaic : to join together materially : unite 3: to add to something earlier, larger, or more important 4: to incorporate (a country or other territory) within the domain of a state 5: to obtain or take for oneself Now that we have a definition of what a sanction is, we can now see that from sanction ( coercive intervention annexed to a violation of a law as a means of enforcing the law ) this is a condition in addition placed on the original infraction of the law. To become a third-party to a legal proceeding by others for the protection of an alleged interest ( Mirriam-Webster, 2008, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intervene ) combined with coercion, the state has now become a FORCED third-party to enforce a law. Well, the "sanction" has now become an addition ( annex ) to the original law. In other words what ever the state law dictates for the infraction, the other third-party is adding to the penalties of the state law. Since a sanction is defined as "the detriment, loss of reward, or coercive intervention annexed to a violation of a law as a means of enforcing the law", how can they say this does not apply additional penalties and/or fines to a state law. Penalty is defined as the suffering in person, rights, or property that is annexed by law or judicial decision to the commission of a crime or public offense ( Miriam-Webster, 2008 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/penalty ). BOTH SANCTION AND PENALTY are no different in meaning. Each are applied repercussions to an offense, yet they are applied at different time periods within the Judicial System by different governing bodies. In other words, each time an action is taken on a single offense, damage is assessed to this action. This violates the double jeopardy law that is supposed to protect the US citizen. This has additional repercussions. In the current Judicial System, a defendant can be brought to court for the offence in two different court systems. The Criminal and the Civil. This has always been a concern of mine ever since I was interviewed for a civil case jury. The defendant had already been brought under a judicial system and was aquitted. He was then brought before a civil court for punitive damages that were all based upon the original alleged offence in criminal court, in which they was acquitted. If this is not double jeopardy, I do not have any hope for our society. Either they are guilty of a crime or not. The prosecution has one chance to prove beyond a doubt to show that the defendant is guilty of a particular crime or not. You should not be able to then try and apply civil actions based upon the same alleged infraction no matter the the action named. This is nothing more than applying a single offence in two different court systems in order to gain a favorable result. In other words, according to the Fifth Amendment, is an action either a crime or not. Then try the individual for the crime in the Criminal or Civil, not both. The idea that an individual can be tried in both, "NOT" either, has always sent bone-chilling effects, no matter the case. Okay, since the US Supreme Court has deemed the addition of the confiscation of your license an “Administrative Sacntion” and does not apply to the double jeopardy protection, I feel that we need to take a look at what “Administrative Sanctions” really means. This would also apply to states that assess fees to get the confiscated license re-instated.

According to Miriam-Webster ( 2008, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sanction ), this is defined as: the detriment, loss of reward, or coercive intervention annexed to a violation of a law as a means of enforcing the law.

According to Miriam-Webster ( 2008, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coercing ), this is defined as:
1. to compel to an act or choice
2. to restrain of dominate by force
3. to achieve by force.

According to Miriam-Webster ( 2008, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/annex ), this is defined as:
1: to attach as a quality, consequence, or condition
2archaic : to join together materially : unite
3: to add to something earlier, larger, or more important
4: to incorporate (a country or other territory) within the domain of a state
5: to obtain or take for oneself

Now that we have a definition of what a sanction is, we can now see that from sanction ( coercive intervention annexed to a violation of a law as a means of enforcing the law ) this is a condition in addition placed on the original infraction of the law. To become a third-party to a legal proceeding by others for the protection of an alleged interest ( Mirriam-Webster, 2008, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intervene ) combined with coercion, the state has now become a FORCED third-party to enforce a law. Well, the “sanction” has now become an addition ( annex ) to the original law. In other words what ever the state law dictates for the infraction, the other third-party is adding to the penalties of the state law. Since a sanction is defined as “the detriment, loss of reward, or coercive intervention annexed to a violation of a law as a means of enforcing the law”, how can they say this does not apply additional penalties and/or fines to a state law. Penalty is defined as the suffering in person, rights, or property that is annexed by law or judicial decision to the commission of a crime or public offense ( Miriam-Webster, 2008 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/penalty ).

BOTH SANCTION AND PENALTY are no different in meaning. Each are applied repercussions to an offense, yet they are applied at different time periods within the Judicial System by different governing bodies. In other words, each time an action is taken on a single offense, damage is assessed to this action. This violates the double jeopardy law that is supposed to protect the US citizen.

This has additional repercussions. In the current Judicial System, a defendant can be brought to court for the offence in two different court systems. The Criminal and the Civil. This has always been a concern of mine ever since I was interviewed for a civil case jury. The defendant had already been brought under a judicial system and was aquitted. He was then brought before a civil court for punitive damages that were all based upon the original alleged offence in criminal court, in which they was acquitted. If this is not double jeopardy, I do not have any hope for our society. Either they are guilty of a crime or not. The prosecution has one chance to prove beyond a doubt to show that the defendant is guilty of a particular crime or not. You should not be able to then try and apply civil actions based upon the same alleged infraction no matter the the action named. This is nothing more than applying a single offence in two different court systems in order to gain a favorable result. In other words, according to the Fifth Amendment, is an action either a crime or not. Then try the individual for the crime
in the Criminal or Civil, not both. The idea that an individual can be tried in both, “NOT” either, has always sent bone-chilling effects, no matter the case.

]]> By: Prof. Challenger http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/comment-page-1/#comment-606 Prof. Challenger Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:45:12 +0000 http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/#comment-606 Stella, There is an administrative proceeding wherein your license is revoked. Because it's not criminal, it's civil, the accused has to initiate the proceedings. If he doesn't, the license is automatically suspended. If you think that is unfair you should look into what the federal and state government does with respect to civil asset forfeiture. Prof. Stella,

There is an administrative proceeding wherein your license is revoked. Because it’s not criminal, it’s civil, the accused has to initiate the proceedings. If he doesn’t, the license is automatically suspended.

If you think that is unfair you should look into what the federal and state government does with respect to civil asset forfeiture.

Prof.

]]> By: Stella http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/comment-page-1/#comment-605 Stella Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:24:47 +0000 http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/#comment-605 I always wonder how it is that they are able to punish *at all* (i.e. confiscating the license and/or license plate) before the accused has been convicted. I always wonder how it is that they are able to punish *at all* (i.e. confiscating the license and/or license plate) before the accused has been convicted.

]]> By: dwiattorney http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/comment-page-1/#comment-601 dwiattorney Sat, 02 Feb 2008 22:42:32 +0000 http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/#comment-601 I believe that you are right, Prof. You do keep your liscense under those circumstances. Roger I believe that you are right, Prof. You do keep your liscense under those circumstances.

Roger

]]> By: Prof. Challenger http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/comment-page-1/#comment-598 Prof. Challenger Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:16:54 +0000 http://www.duiblog.com/2008/01/30/dui-double-jeopardy-and-multiple-punishment/#comment-598 Mr. Taylor, You write: "If he is later convicted in the state’s criminal court of driving over .08% (and/or driving under the influence), he will be punished once again. The sentence may involve jail, fines, DUI schools, community work, probation — and a restricted, suspended or revoked license." I understood that in California at least when you beat the DMV you kept your license as long as you weren't convicted on or plead to the (b) count (.08 or higher). Do I have it wrong? Prof. Mr. Taylor,

You write:

“If he is later convicted in the state’s criminal court of driving over .08% (and/or driving under the influence), he will be punished once again. The sentence may involve jail, fines, DUI schools, community work, probation — and a restricted, suspended or revoked license.”

I understood that in California at least when you beat the DMV you kept your license as long as you weren’t convicted on or plead to the (b) count (.08 or higher). Do I have it wrong?

Prof.

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